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Based on what steam users have said...

There is more than just the version number mismatch. I am starting to believe that there is content missing from the Steam versions of both DS1 and DS2. Why do I think this you ask? Because of missing objects, objects that float above where they should be. Missing or problematic ambient characters and shopkeepers, innkeepers. If a person has both the steam version of DS1 and DS2 they appear to report more of these issues than do people with just one of the steam versions. Now I know that there is content in retail versions of all the various Dungeon Siege editions that exist, but are not active in the final release of the games. I also know that some of these assets are used in the DS1_Legendary_Mod. What if the people at Steam removed the unused assets from their versions to provide a faster download?
That would explain the different version numbers between the retail and steam versions of the game. This would also explain why the more advanced the legendary mod becomes the more of these issues arise. Now asking the people at Steam if they removed any of the content is pointless as their tech support is almost non existent. So we will have to rely on the steam users themselves to help us answer this question. So in that light, if you have a steam version of any of the games installed on your computer could you provide the following information>
The name and file size of each of the default files for the games you have.
I am most interested in the sizes of Objects.ds2res and Logic.ds2res, but having the size of the sound files and terrain file would also be useful.

Thank you in advance
Elf

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techiem2's picture

Well we know that MP was removed/disabled/something from the steam versions. Who knows what other tweaks were made...

Sizes (what windows explorer shows)

DS1:
DevLogic.dsres 2 KB
Logic.dsres 4,109 KB
Objects.dsres 297,304 KB
Sound.dsres 181,000 KB
Terrain.dsres 400,616 KB
Voice.dsres 44,875 KB

DS2:
Logic.ds2res 8,010 KB
Movies1.ds2res 385,792 KB
Movies2.ds2res 326,953 KB
Objects.ds2res 246,152 KB
Sound1.ds2res 364,197 KB
Sound2.ds2res 73,031 KB
Terrain.ds2res 458,454 KB
Voices.ds2res 226,550 KB

Steam has never been known for making publishers trim things for size I don't think..considering I have at least one 16GB or more game in my list...lol

Thank you very much techie this will help

Elf

The Steam DS2 objects file is 592 KB smaller than the retail version.
The Steam DS2 Movies1 file is 12496 KB smaller than the retail version.
This is according to the windows explorer, just as Techie reported it.
Now all the other files are of the same size.
Is it possible Techie for you to upload the Steam objects file to your server and give me a link to it, so that I can compare it to the retail and steam versions to see just what is different?

Elf

I've trolled through the various forums on Steam regarding this issue and it would seem more to do more with the way the game is set up in steam than version mismatches.

The steam version of Dungeon Siege 1 runs well with mods it would seem. The situation is different with Dungeon Siege 2.

The primary reason appears to be the exe used with the steam version of DS2 which is designed to block multiplayer. All 3 guides on the Dungeon Siege 2 Steam Page for enabling multiplayer in Dungeon Siege 2 involve replacing this exe with another one. Additionally 2 of the guides also involve moving the entire Dungeon Siege 2 folder out of the Steam Apps folder somewhere else on your hard drive. It appears mods work after all of this is done. A rather drastic solution to the problem.

Another solution for at least installing the Legendary Mod is to use the registry fix to install the mod. Now this appears to work for some players and not others and you will not be able to use the ALLSaves launcher as it won't recognize the game exe. Again replacing the game exe with another will solve that issue or purchasing the Broken World addon (which can now be installed as it can find the original DS2 folder) and using that with the Broken World version of AllSaves or Succubus Manager will work.

The minor size differences between the retail boxed version and steam version of Dungeon Siege 2 certainly doesn't explain the glitches recently reported by an user trying to install the Legendary Mod with the steam versions of the game. The Legendary Mod is an addon and doesn't require changing any existing DS2 files.

Incidentally using the steam registry fixes can be problematic and it would appear from the ModDB page of the Legendary Mod that some users have inadvertently disabled DS2 by using it when not required. I have directed them to visit this site for help as its easier in these forums than over at ModDB.

techiem2's picture

I'll get them going and pm you link when they're done.

however i need to verify one thing.
in the mean time if there is a brave steam ds2 user out there.
Go to your Dungeon Siege 2 directory and rename DungeonSiege2.exe to DungeonSiege2.exe1 then download the modified exe file and place it in the same directory as the original DungeonSiege2.exe1

http://siegetheday.org/~bare_elf/execs/DungeonSiege2.exe

Then install elys Allsaves for DS2 if you have not already done so
the link is here
http://web.archive.org/web/20120509151203/http://garage.gaspowered.com/?q=node/1990

This sould correct
A. The ability to use allsaves
B. The ability to play multiplayer
C. Allow you to use the latest version of the legendary mod.

if it does not just delete the new dungeonsiege2.exe and rename the original back to dungeonsiege2.exe

Now this is very important if it works tell me, if it dose not work tell me, as i have a more involved solution that will take a few more steps to get working.

Elf

techiem2's picture

Allsaves:
Installed itself to c:\
Moving the files to the DS2 steam directory let it launch DS2.

Multiplayer:
Local Network - Said yes to add firewall exception and said allow when windows firewall exception box opened in background (alt+tab to get to it) - got to the Party Selection lobby - Made a party and hosted and started a game just fine.
Internet - After hitting ok on nickname screen it locks up for a minute then says unable to connect
Gamespy - didn't try

techiem2 wrote:
Allsaves:
Installed itself to c:\
Moving the files to the DS2 steam directory let it launch DS2.

Multiplayer:
Local Network - Said yes to add firewall exception and said allow when windows firewall exception box opened in background (alt+tab to get to it) - got to the Party Selection lobby - Made a party and hosted and started a game just fine.
Internet - After hitting ok on nickname screen it locks up for a minute then says unable to connect
Gamespy - didn't try


By changing DungeonSiege2.exe from the one provided by steam to the one I posted in this forum corrects several of the issues.
1. the ability to get to the multiplayer menu
2. the ability to use allsaves
3. Now the unable to connect to gamespy in the multiuser screen is normal since gamespy does not exist, however there are several forums with way to connect a multi player game over the Internet. Should not be an issue over a local area network
Now that we know this Steam users you might have a solution and have the Legendary Mod and other mods work.

Elf

bare_elf wrote:
techiem2 wrote:
Allsaves:
Installed itself to c:\
Moving the files to the DS2 steam directory let it launch DS2.

Multiplayer:
Local Network - Said yes to add firewall exception and said allow when windows firewall exception box opened in background (alt+tab to get to it) - got to the Party Selection lobby - Made a party and hosted and started a game just fine.
Internet - After hitting ok on nickname screen it locks up for a minute then says unable to connect
Gamespy - didn't try


By changing DungeonSiege2.exe from the one provided by steam to the one I posted in this forum corrects several of the issues.
1. the ability to get to the multiplayer menu
2. the ability to use allsaves
3. Now the unable to connect to gamespy in the multiuser screen is normal since gamespy does not exist, however there are several forums with way to connect a multi player game over the Internet. Should not be an issue over a local area network
Now that we know this Steam users you might have a solution and have the Legendary Mod and other mods work.

Elf


This confirms what has been posted on the steam forums about multiplayer and using an alternative dungeonsiege2.exe. Nobody on steam had obviously tried using allsaves with this method but its not surprising that it works.

The remaining question is whether this makes mods work better, especially the Legendary Mod as that's where all of this started.

techiem2's picture

I guess that should be my next test then when I have a chance.

techiem2 wrote:
I guess that should be my next test then when I have a chance.

Yes but only when you have some free time. There are other users who are having issues that could try it also.

Elf

techiem2's picture

Bob just burned his way to L5 and the Crypt.

Shadow Watcher's picture

techiem2 wrote:
Bob just burned his way to L5 and the Crypt.

So you where able to get the legendary mod operational with no problems and using AllSaves and get as far as the crypts in Ehb as a level 5 combat mage.
So that proves beyond question that changing the DungeonSiege2.exe supplied with the steam DS2 game to the one posted in this thread corrects most if not all of the issues

techiem2's picture

Yup.

techiem2 wrote:
Yup.

Thank you very much for confirming this for us. Maybe if DrXann follows this advice it will solve his issues.

Still I don't know what Square-Enix are thinking, making DS2 single-player only and then also preventing the use of mods. Why? If they just made DS2 multiplayer only, perhaps it would make some weird sense. I know they are a console eccentric publisher but do they hate mods so much?

techiem2's picture

I'm guessing they didn't want to bother figuring out how to recode it to make it do MP via Steam (especially since they didn't write it to begin with), so they just cut the MP altogether since gamespy is no more.

As for mods..it seems lots of publishers hate mods..don't know why since mods make people more likely to buy their games..but whatever.

Hi friends, I'm a new steam user who got both DS1 and 2 using it. I've played through DS2 a few times in the past, and saw your mod that circumvents the DS1 compatibility issues.

I originally tried the registry fixes only and, like the rest, was unable to use the all*saves mod. This led to the oddities I'm sure, including the inability to hire on any new NPCs. I'm going to run through the first section of the game again to verify that replacing the exe with the one provided works on my computer.

It did take me 2-3 hours of research to find this thread, since I was looking in the main thread. Could this thread or at least an acknowledgement of the issue be posted in the install instructions?

Btw, incredible work. I mostly haunt the Freespace 2 modding scene, but I'm definitely impressed with what's going on over here.

Cyborg17 wrote:
Hi friends, I'm a new steam user who got both DS1 and 2 using it. I've played through DS2 a few times in the past, and saw your mod that circumvents the DS1 compatibility issues.

I originally tried the registry fixes only and, like the rest, was unable to use the all*saves mod. This led to the oddities I'm sure, including the inability to hire on any new NPCs. I'm going to run through the first section of the game again to verify that replacing the exe with the one provided works on my computer.

It did take me 2-3 hours of research to find this thread, since I was looking in the main thread. Could this thread or at least an acknowledgement of the issue be posted in the install instructions?

Btw, incredible work. I mostly haunt the Freespace 2 modding scene, but I'm definitely impressed with what's going on over here.


Welcome to the site Cyborg17. I hope you enjoy what's on offer here.

It was difficult in tracking the exact cause of the problem with steam versions of the game without actually having it installed plus until the last few months there has been limited feedback on this site on the issue and its hard to discuss anything in any depth at Moddb. Now I have the steam version installed on my PC, thanks to the Steam XMas sale, I was able to quickly verify the problem and track down the cause and with help from everyone else here at SiegetheDay, come up with a possible solution.

I'm just waiting for permission to distribute a slightly modified launcher which should not only allow mods to be used with the steam version of DS2 but unlock multiplayer as well. Once this occurs there won't just be an acknowledgement on the main thread but a link to the solution which I also hope to distribute as a modding support framework for steam owners of DS2. I will even look at providing this mod support framework for DS2 at Steam as well, to make it easier to find.

The registry fixes won't then be required as such since I hope to make an option to use manual searching for installation folders in the main installer of the Legendary Mod. However the DS2 registry fix could still be useful for anyone who wants to install Broken World, as it needs to know where DS2 is installed to both install itself and to run.

All right.

FWIW, until that is done, the replacement exe fixed the major errors for me as well.

Go ahead (^_^)

Here's a public test of the mod support for the Steam version of DS2.
http://www.siegetheday.org/~iryan/files/Steam_DS2_Mod_Framework_v2.zip

It needs to be unzipped into the Dungeon Siege 2 folder where steam installed it, typically C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\SteamApps\common\Dungeon Siege 2.

Then use the "Steam DS2 Mod Launcher" shortcut to play. This shortcut or a copy of it can be placed anywhere on your PC. If you installed your steam games somewhere else than the above default, it will be necessary to edit the shortcut to reflect the changed installation path or the shortcut won't work. Other reasons for the shortcut failing to work could be a missed required dll or similar.

Mods will then need to ideally be placed in the new Mods folder (there's already the DS2 map menu fix included there for convenience).

Additionally the multiplayer options will now be available.

For the Steam version of DS2, AllSaves has been renamed to SteamDS2AllSaves and will not work with the retail box version of DS2. Nor for that matter will it work with the original Steam DS2 exe which has been left unchanged. Any feedback, comments, complaints, etc, about this version of AllSaves needs to be directed to me and not Elys as its a special version modified for use for the Steam version of DS2 by her kind permission.

Using the shortcut will also change where the game keeps saved games, configuration files, screenshots, etc. These will now be in the installed Steam DS2 location, where a new mods folder will be located as well. Ideally place mods into this folder and not the resources folder.

The above is necessary to prevent a possible "Smart Heap out of memory error" where SteamDS2AllSaves attempts to parse saved games from the original exe. By keeping the saved games separate prevents this error from occurring. This is far from confirmed and may only apply to my system which now has both the retail box version and steam version installed and before SteamDS2AllSaves, both were using Documents\My Games to store gamed games and configuration files. Feel free to experiment.

After installing the steam versions of the game. I would next unzip the framework in the directory as you said then I could put mods like the legendary mod into the mod folder, In my case it would be a copy and paste from my non steam directory right?

Elf

iryan wrote:
Here's a public test of the mod support for the Steam version of DS2.
http://www.siegetheday.org/~iryan/files/Steam_DS2_Mod_Framework_v2.zip

It needs to be unzipped into the Dungeon Siege 2 folder where steam installed it, typically C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\SteamApps\common\Dungeon Siege 2.

Then use the "Steam DS2 Mod Launcher" shortcut to play. This shortcut or a copy of it can be placed anywhere on your PC. If you installed your steam games somewhere else than the above default, it will be necessary to edit the shortcut to reflect the changed installation path or the shortcut won't work. Other reasons for the shortcut failing to work could be a missed required dll or similar.

Mods will then need to ideally be placed in the new Mods folder (there's already the DS2 map menu fix included there for convenience).

Additionally the multiplayer options will now be available.

For the Steam version of DS2, AllSaves has been renamed to SteamDS2AllSaves and will not work with the retail box version of DS2. Nor for that matter will it work with the original Steam DS2 exe which has been left unchanged. Any feedback, comments, complaints, etc, about this version of AllSaves needs to be directed to me and not Elys as its a special version modified for use for the Steam version of DS2 by her kind permission.

Using the shortcut will also change where the game keeps saved games, configuration files, screenshots, etc. These will now be in the installed Steam DS2 location, where a new mods folder will be located as well. Ideally place mods into this folder and not the resources folder.

The above is necessary to prevent a possible "Smart Heap out of memory error" where SteamDS2AllSaves attempts to parse saved games from the original exe. By keeping the saved games separate prevents this error from occurring. This is far from confirmed and may only apply to my system which now has both the retail box version and steam version installed and before SteamDS2AllSaves, both were using Documents\My Games to store gamed games and configuration files. Feel free to experiment.

Okay steam versions of DS1 and DS2 are all correctly installed. Installed the framework. Copied all the legendary mod files, several additional mods and my armor and weapon mods from my retail DS2 resources folder into the mods folder under steam. All of the maps appear in the map selection screen, all of the maps start. I have not had an opportunity to play any of the maps as yet. Any suggestions as to which map I should start with? Anyway so far it looks as if your fix for Steam is working well at least to the point I tested it to.

Elf

bare_elf wrote:
Okay steam versions of DS1 and DS2 are all correctly installed. Installed the framework. Copied all the legendary mod files, several additional mods and my armor and weapon mods from my retail DS2 resources folder into the mods folder under steam. All of the maps appear in the map selection screen, all of the maps start. I have not had an opportunity to play any of the maps as yet. Any suggestions as to which map I should start with? Anyway so far it looks as if your fix for Steam is working well at least to the point I tested it to.

Elf


That sounds promising. It looks like I haven't forgotten to include anything vital. I would assume that having gotten everything started, things would work fine from there. There is a small difference in size between the Object.ds2res of the two versions but the Logic.ds2res is exactly the same size. I'd be surprised if anything major is different. The previous issues of missing objects, hireable characters, etc, has been confirmed to be due to the way the steam exe reads mods. Using this modified launcher bypasses all of that.

Possibly the most debatable feature is having a custom mod folder. You could argue that since the Steam version has it multiplayer component disabled then there's no need to have a custom mod folder. Perhaps that's true. That feature could easily be dropped if necessary but in any case mods will still work as before if they're located in the resources folder. It's just that if somebody wants to use the steam version (crippled as it is), mods located in the resources folder will impact saved games.

Maybe of interest is some observations I made about the way the commandline switches work. Using the parameter user_path in a shortcut automatically assigns all of the other path locations normally found in Documents\My Games\Dungeon Siege 2 to the new user_path plus the required sub-folder.

However user_path doesn't seem to work if used in DungeonSiege2.ini or ElysDS2AllSaves.ini. Nor does save_path and possibly none of the path parameters. It has to be set in a shortcut. It also requires the full path be declared. However res_paths doesn't need the full path to be declared.

As an experiment could someone try using SteamDS2AllSaves.exe directly and see what happens? Just a warning that you may need to use Task Manager to quit the game if an error occurs. For me the error generally occurs trying to click on Singleplayer (Multiplayer and Options worked) and the game hangs. In the background there is an error message regarding Smart Heap and out of memory error, which I mentioned earlier. It would just be useful to know if the problem was systemic just to my game configuration or a common occurrence.

As to what map to play, whatever one you would like, maybe the latest version of KOE?

iryan wrote:
bare_elf wrote:
Okay steam versions of DS1 and DS2 are all correctly installed. Installed the framework. Copied all the legendary mod files, several additional mods and my armor and weapon mods from my retail DS2 resources folder into the mods folder under steam. All of the maps appear in the map selection screen, all of the maps start. I have not had an opportunity to play any of the maps as yet. Any suggestions as to which map I should start with? Anyway so far it looks as if your fix for Steam is working well at least to the point I tested it to.

Elf


That sounds promising. It looks like I haven't forgotten to include anything vital. I would assume that having gotten everything started, things would work fine from there. There is a small difference in size between the Object.ds2res of the two versions but the Logic.ds2res is exactly the same size. I'd be surprised if anything major is different. The previous issues of missing objects, hireable characters, etc, has been confirmed to be due to the way the steam exe reads mods. Using this modified launcher bypasses all of that.

Possibly the most debatable feature is having a custom mod folder. You could argue that since the Steam version has it multiplayer component disabled then there's no need to have a custom mod folder. Perhaps that's true. That feature could easily be dropped if necessary but in any case mods will still work as before if they're located in the resources folder. It's just that if somebody wants to use the steam version (crippled as it is), mods located in the resources folder will impact saved games.

Maybe of interest is some observations I made about the way the commandline switches work. Using the parameter user_path in a shortcut automatically assigns all of the other path locations normally found in Documents\My Games\Dungeon Siege 2 to the new user_path plus the required sub-folder.

However user_path doesn't seem to work if used in DungeonSiege2.ini or ElysDS2AllSaves.ini. Nor does save_path and possibly none of the path parameters. It has to be set in a shortcut. It also requires the full path be declared. However res_paths doesn't need the full path to be declared.

As an experiment could someone try using SteamDS2AllSaves.exe directly and see what happens? Just a warning that you may need to use Task Manager to quit the game if an error occurs. For me the error generally occurs trying to click on Singleplayer (Multiplayer and Options worked) and the game hangs. In the background there is an error message regarding Smart Heap and out of memory error, which I mentioned earlier. It would just be useful to know if the problem was systemic just to my game configuration or a common occurrence.

As to what map to play, whatever one you would like, maybe the latest version of KOE?


The experiment of using SteamDS2allsaves.exe fails for me just as it fails for you iryan. I will play KoE newest with steam and see what occurs
Elf

bare_elf wrote:

The experiment of using SteamDS2allsaves.exe fails for me just as it fails for you iryan. I will play KoE newest with steam and see what occurs
Elf

Thanks for the verification. I did some more testing as well with some interesting results.

The memory error only seems to occur when both the retail box version and steam version are using the same saved game location when using SteamDS2AllSaves to load the game. Even though both exes are essentially identical (apart from a slight name change), something is causing the launcher to hang when trying to parse the saved games. There must be some other information concerning some obscure parameter that is saved with the saved games that causes this glitch.

Using the same save location for the steam version of DS2 using both the original exe and SteamDS2AllSaves doesn't seem to cause any issues. Both exes ignore games saved with the other version, they don't appear as possible choices. So for an owner of the steam version of DS2, there should be no problem directly using SteamDS2AllSaves.exe without the shortcut.

So I'll test this for a while by deleting my original Dungeon Siege 2 installation which doesn't appear to be required since I've used regedit to change the registry location of Dungeon Siege 2 to the steam version so Broken World can find it.

Since I wish to hire the ranger in stonebridge I started a game Kingdom of Ehb as a combat mage, in both retail DS2 and Steam DS2 (with the changes iryan has created). The mods I have installed in my DS2 Resources folder have been copied to the Steam DS2 Mods folder without change. After running about on Sharkull's test map for a while (both characters the retail one and steam one) I purchased a Cestus. They are displayed correctly in Retail DS2 character on the outside of both hands. However the steam character wears the the left hand cestus on the palm and not the back of the hand almost as if she where wearing two right handed cestus. I saw this problem many years ago right after DS2 was first released and Firebat and I where converting some DS1 weapons to DS2. I think I best check to see what occurs when I have a melee character and see if she might hold the left handed weapon backwards.

Elf

I checked that the a dual wielding steam character held her weapons correctly and not like a combat mage with a cestus. She holds the off handed weapon (shield hand or left hand) correctly however the grip on the weapon hand (right hand) is off. I recall that this was one of the fixes that GPG fixed when the mod was upgraded from DS2 version 2.0 to version 2.1. It really makes me wonder where Steam got their version of DS2 and what revision it was.
I will look into it some more.

Elf

bare_elf wrote:
I checked that the a dual wielding steam character held her weapons correctly and not like a combat mage with a cestus. She holds the off handed weapon (shield hand or left hand) correctly however the grip on the weapon hand (right hand) is off. I recall that this was one of the fixes that GPG fixed when the mod was upgraded from DS2 version 2.0 to version 2.1. It really makes me wonder where Steam got their version of DS2 and what revision it was.
I will look into it some more.

Elf


That's very interesting. It could account in some small way in the size difference between the two objects.ds2res files but certainly if that was completely correct about it being an older version, it would be a total coincidence for the logic.ds2res to be the same exact size as well as all the other files that the two versions use, other than dungeonsiege2.exe.

You would think that Square-Enix would have obtained the latest source files for DS2 and just made the minor modifications needed to remove the disk check and disable multiplayer, and then compile a new build suitable for digital distribution. Remember the original came on 4 cds as that was before dvds.

I suspect the cause for the odd holding animations is an older set of animation files? They would certainly be found in objects.ds2res. I'll have to untank the objects.ds2res from the steam version and compare it with Beyond Compare which will highlight differences in file dates, changes, etc, between the two versions.
Then a fix could quite easily be created. Comparing the two objects.ds2res files will also reveal any other changes made which could impact gameplay.

Sure Iryan I remember the 4 cds required to install DS2, and the CDs required to install DS1 and LoA -- I used them all last week when I installed the games on my new computer Smile Yes I still have a full set of DS1 CDs plus a DVD of DS1 and LoA, A full set of DS2 CDs, A broken World DVD and now the steam versions of DS1 DS2 and DS3. I am wondering if moving the DSLoA directory from the retail install to the DS1 steam root folder would allow steam players to have Legends of Aranna? I will have to try that.

Elf

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