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Gmax help, Switch Forearm of Farmgirl to Armor Material/Texture?

ChickenGeorge's picture

Does anybody here mod using Gmax?
I made a nifty plate texture for the pos a1 armor.
But this armor is the only one that has skin for forearms.
Does anybody know how to transfer that portion over to the other material?

I tried selecting those verts as polygons,
the idea being in the material window I could click the apply button.
But it was grayed out.
Really hoping I can just use the existing a1 Gmax art asset.
It would save a huge work load of weighting and getting the asp
to actually work right.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

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Darkelf's picture
yes the nnk can be used to

yes the nnk can be used to import ds2 and be content to ds1 I tried importing the dryads years ago they worked for the most part but then there was the armor issue if picked up ds1 armor they couldn't wear and sometimes game would crash so I gave up on that idea the tank files were huge as well... u can name your nnk chickengeorge.nnk and it would work. I can see a new chicken race coming if this is going where I think it going..and that would be cool cause we got cat people but no chicken people... as for ds2 asp viewer I believe Brkopac
and xmen were working on a new version I downloaded but never got it to work maybe u can ask them if they still have it

ChickenGeorge's picture
More then one NNK

ghastley wrote:
A mod can override an existing NNK, or it can add its own, and I thought I'd written something about the pro's and con's of the two. If I find it, I'll post it here somewhere.

But basically, it's a question of potential conflicts when you run more than one mod at a time. You an probably figure out your own need for this case.

Thank you. I will take care not to interfere with other's mods for the siegelet we work with. Or give fare warring.

Siege university says is possible to have another namingkey that doesn't override the original.
LOA has two naming key files and the addon version doesn't bother listing the pos a1 - a7 suits.
But goes on to list a8 and a9.

I'm guessing that new suit types will work if only their name is entered into the new NNK,
and everything else will also still function properly.

Side note: I think I saw a hooded character in Broken world.
If all of the bones are the same for DS2 content then I could technically port them to DS1.
I just wish there was an asp viewer for DS2.
But I think there may be a workaround.
I once replace the art dsres of DS1 with LOA expansion dsres (renaming it too).
And then fired up the asp viewer and it returned an error saying nothing matched the naming key.
But what if we replaced the naming key to include all of LOA content?
And if we added DS2 stuff to the dsres, updated/replaced the original NNK,
Asp viewer might be able to view those models.

Probably would have to convert the dds to raw.
So unless I am mistaken, asp viewer also relies on the NNK.

ghastley's picture
Override or additional

A mod can override an existing NNK, or it can add its own, and I thought I'd written something about the pro's and con's of the two. If I find it, I'll post it here somewhere.

But basically, it's a question of potential conflicts when you run more than one mod at a time. You an probably figure out your own need for this case.

ChickenGeorge's picture
Thank you Ghastley and AlphaDD

ghastley wrote:

This could just be a case of an entry missing in the .nnk file.
And yes, it can use those extra folders, because I've done so. I just can't remember which mod, or I'd point you at the example.

AlphaDD wrote:

...add a line in the NNK file like this:

TREE = B_C_POS_A16 , Type16 , "Armor Type 16"

DDLullu

That did the trick. I exported LOA's addon namingmey fle and the included directories were enabled.
Thank you both Ghastley and AlphaDD

Now I can add my custom armors!

ghastley's picture
NNK

ChickenGeorge wrote:
DS1 doesn't seem to be able to have custom type# folders for textures.

This could just be a case of an entry missing in the .nnk file.

And yes, it can use those extra folders, because I've done so. I just can't remember which mod, or I'd point you at the example.

ChickenGeorge's picture
LOA Suits Don't Work in DS1 Regular

DS1 doesn't seem to be able to have custom type# folders for textures.

I extracted the gas, asps and icons and bitmap folders from LOA and put all
a8 and a9 suits in the first barrel of the start.
The game just doesn't like any type other then whats native to DS1.

The only thing I had to edit was the strength requirements in the .gas, for testing.
But nothing else.
As mentioned earlier, the icons do work.
The asp models work.
The only thing that does not is the textures being in a custom 'type#' folder.

My next experiment will be can LOA utilize a12 or a50 type folder,
since they can use a8 and a9 type folders.

ChickenGeorge's picture
NNK

AlphaDD wrote:
You forgot to copy your texture in the type9 folder and change the name for the type9 (a1 to a9) That will be: art\bitmaps\characters\body_armor\type9\b_c_pos_a9_0xx.raw (rename 0xx to your new texture number) You'll do the same for type16 but you add a line in the NNK file like this:

TREE = B_C_POS_A16 , Type16 , "Armor Type 16"

DDLullu

Thank you for the advice but I already did that.
The texture was renamed to a9: b_c_pos_a9_811.raw/.psd
And I put it in folder art\bitmaps\characters\body_armor\type9\b_c_pos_a9_811.raw
I made sure everything was named correctly and the folders were named correctly too.

The inventory icon:
art\bitmaps\gui\in_game\inventory\armor\body_armor\b_gui_ig_i_a_pos_a9_811.raw
The icon worked correctly.
The meshes:
art\meshes\characters\good_a_heroes\farmboy\m_c_gah_fb_pos_a9.asp
art\meshes\characters\good_a_heroes\farmgirl\m_c_gah_fg_pos_a9.asp
art\meshes\armor\suits\m_a_suit_a9.asp

Each model was also told which texture to use using Hexeditor.

I will try the namingkey file.

ghastley's picture
TES Series and Steam

kathycf wrote:
Thanks for the heads up about the mods. Oh, Daggerfall. I never played it but isn't it even older than Morrowind? I think I will like Skyrim, but it kind of annoys me that I have to go through Steam to play it. As far as I know the game was purchased at GameStop, so I don't know why I can't just run it in a traditional fashion. I have Steam, and I can understand down loading and playing games I get from them through Steam but. well it just irks me.
Steam put me off Skyrim for a long time. After playing and modding Oblivion (TES IV), I bought the Anthology (all TES games from Arena to Skyrim in a boxed set) because Morrowind wasn't available any more, and had problems getting Morrowind to run on Wondows 8. So I played Daggerfall for a while, found some third-party tools to let me mod it, and created Orcs. Morrowind still wasn't working, so I tried Skyrim despite Steam, and got into modding that. Skyrim is the only one that required Steam, and I think the later Special Edition may have bypassed that. However, I got it as an upgrade, so my Skyrim was already Steam'ed.

I didn't play Morrowind until Windows 10 got it working, but then I got rid of that laptop, and started playing it on my main win 7 games machine. It appears that only Win 8 ever had issues. I've played a bit of Arena, but there's no hope of mods, so I lost interest quickly. It's also a harder game at low levels than the later ones, meaning you die (and restart) very often.

So I played them in the order 4, 2, 1, 5, 3, which may not be the logical one. Insane

Now I'm playing ESO, which is TES-based, but not part of the series. As an MMO, you can't mod it, but I don't get too frustrated by that, as I don't expect to do so.

Morrowind to Skyrim all used the same basic engine (or derivatives), so similar modding tools work for all of them. Arena and Daggerfall were 2d/3d hybrids with 2d sprites in a 3d game world. I didn't do any 3d modelling for those, just played with the 2d stuff, and the scripting.

You forgot to copy your

You forgot to copy your texture in the type9 folder and change the name for the type9 (a1 to a9)
That will be: art\bitmaps\characters\body_armor\type9\b_c_pos_a9_0xx.raw (rename 0xx to your new texture number)
You'll do the same for type16 but you add a line in the NNK file like this:

TREE = B_C_POS_A16 , Type16 , "Armor Type 16"

DDLullu

ChickenGeorge's picture
I've always been curious

I've always been curious about Elder Scrolls. Will have to give it a try.

I just made a test suit for the original DS game ehb.
Tankview to extract farmboy and farmgirl's a1 suit.
Extracted a type1 texture
extracted a gui inventory icon.

Renamed them all to a9. (Keep in mind LOA has an a9 suit)
Type9 folder, and all A's are a9.
Did not use Gmax to edit anything.
I used a hex editor to change the texture names in the asp file
to reflect the new naming and new texture type.
Placed the suit in the first barrel at start of game.

The suit toss model fell to the ground but was a bumblebee no textured.
And the same happened when equipping the suit.
The skin texture still showed up.

It just may be that there is no way to make a new armor
without overwriting an original in game suit.
I first tested if a10 would work which didn't,
so I figured that maybe it can only be single digit.
Not the case.

kathycf's picture
re: tes

ghastley wrote:
kathycf wrote:
Modelling for tes, that is very cool. I have Morrowind and I got Skyrim as a birthday present but I haven't installed it yet.
When you get round to playing TES, there are huge numbers of mods at https://www.nexusmods.com/ including 29 of mine. None published for Morrowind, but lots for Oblivion and Skyrim (and one for Daggerfall!).

Thanks for the heads up about the mods. Oh, Daggerfall. I never played it but isn't it even older than Morrowind? I think I will like Skyrim, but it kind of annoys me that I have to go through Steam to play it. As far as I know the game was purchased at GameStop, so I don't know why I can't just run it in a traditional fashion. I have Steam, and I can understand down loading and playing games I get from them through Steam but. well it just irks me.

ghastley's picture
TES

kathycf wrote:
Modelling for tes, that is very cool. I have Morrowind and I got Skyrim as a birthday present but I haven't installed it yet.
When you get round to playing TES, there are huge numbers of mods at https://www.nexusmods.com/ including 29 of mine. None published for Morrowind, but lots for Oblivion and Skyrim (and one for Daggerfall!).

kathycf's picture
gee Max

ghastley wrote:

I no longer have a working gMAX. The machine it was installed on wore out and got replaced, and I didn't re-install on the new one. I use Blender for modelling (TES games these days) and the UI is completely different on that, so my memory of gMAX is suspect.

Gmax is here on this site as well as Turbosquid if you are still interested in it. Turbosquid provides a serial number with the download for registering the product.

Modelling for tes, that is very cool. I have Morrowind and I got Skyrim as a birthday present but I haven't installed it yet.

ghastley's picture
gMAX

For DS1, in the gMAX edit, you designate what faces are which material for a specific armor/body. It's much the same as what's helmet and what's face for a helmet/hairstyle. Some faces are skin faces, and some are armour faces. However, before you can do that, it has to be made a multi-material mesh, or the option to set the second material is greyed out.

DS2 did things a bit differently, as they wanted to have skin/armour boundaries that were not at the mesh face edges. So those have an armour texture to match each skin, which matches the body texture. I think the helmets worked the old way, however.

I no longer have a working gMAX. The machine it was installed on wore out and got replaced, and I didn't re-install on the new one. I use Blender for modelling (TES games these days) and the UI is completely different on that, so my memory of gMAX is suspect.

kathycf's picture
re: Alpha channel armor

Lili, don't forget that alpha channels only work on Catmansion models as well as the CutieGirl models done by AlphaDD and Phoenix. The standard DS model doesn't support alpha channels, unfortunately. I agree about the alpha channel being the way to go and I am in the process of converting all my a1 armor to use alpha channels.

Chicken George, both of those mods are in the download section under LoA, as well as the cutiegirl (updated version v2) available in the DS1 download. They are meant to be used with LoA. But you could probably import the cutie models into your mod - note - the cutie models are the "regular" farmboy/farmgirl models, just with alpha channel in the a1 version. The alpha channel support also covers the dwarf and the half giant models. I'm pretty sure that Lazarus uses DS1 resources only, so taking the cutie models and importing them should work in regular DS. Oh, just to be clear, by "import" I mean just extracting the models and putting them in their own dsres, not anything to do with SiegeMax. Smile

Maybe for the new armor type if you renamed it t10? Type 8 and 9 are LoA only so maybe you could get away with renaming your model as type8, if Lazarus does not use LoA resources. Also the type 8 armor is basically type 6 sooo, just as an idea perhaps you could change the type8 to type 6 which would free you up to use type 8. I'm not 100 percent on how that would work out (if at all) but you could look at the 6 and 8 models and textures and see what you think.

bare_elf's picture
I use alpha channels on all DS1 and LoA armor

George of the Chickens, Alpha channels work great on Type a1 armor. use them all the time.
Elf

ChickenGeorge's picture
That's a great suggestion!

kathycf wrote:
A simple way would be just to edit the forearm part on Farmgirl's texture but I'm sure you thought of that already. I made the hands silvery without thinking to leave them plain since there will be gloves. . . I can see how doing that would be problematic. FG's forearms would look stupid in any other a1 or a2 armor, not too mention how ever many textures you would have to edit to maintain consistency for various other female characters. I think if you made the armor progressive, then the character could just wear it all the time, without worrying about the stupid look from equipping other armors.

Maybe if you fashioned a new armor type like the a1 and called it something else based on a1, like a0 or something similar? You could reuse the existing ground model thingy (suit?) for it. I am completely ignorant how one would make a new armor type and/or the difficulty involved. Maybe an experienced SiegeMax modder will wander into this thread. In fact, I don't even know why I am replying...kind of useless. Argh.

I wish I had a better solution for you. Sad It looks like it will make a nice armor once you work out the kinks.

bare_elf wrote:
That is all very true Kathy. If it where me I would just make a progressive A1 armor and assign it to my primary character and each of the hero characters that live in DS1 and LoA within the character templates. I have done this with one of my armors so that it shows up in each character's inventory and can be equipped any old time. (I have an equipment package armor, weapons, shields and spells that each character gets by default and everything is progressive) Elf

That is a good idea. Which made me wonder if an alpha skin overlay texture can be added on when armor is equipped.

	[aspect]
	{
		[textures]
		{
			0 = b_c_gah_fg_skin_999; // 0 = number for skin alpha overlay?
		}
	}

If only the arms were plate metal, and everything else alpha, maybe the characters default skin would still work... Imagine the possibilities with such an alpha texture addon.

I figured it out in Gmax. Basically I needed to transfer the uvmap of the forearms to the other map. Suits have two materials, two textures and two uvmaps. I needed the forearm map to be added to the suit uvmap instead of the skin uvmap. And the following worked.

The models work. The toss model works. The models are in the correct locations.
I made a new folder in order to create a new category. Type 16.
And made sure all items are appropriately named to a16.

But the suit texture doesn't work over the model. It shows up as a yellow and black bumblebee as it does when a texture fails. But the bumblebee is also over the forearms now, so yay!

This is usually caused by misnaming things. Or forgetting a ; in the gas.

But everything seems to check out.

	[defend]
	{
		armor_style = u72;		// Texture
		armor_type = a16;		// Model
		f defense = 10.000000;
	}

I am pretty handy at making static props, and snos, and weapons and shields.
The hardest thing for me in Gmax is characters. They give nothing but trouble.
I can't figure what's wrong here.
When I replace existing a1 type models with the new asp suits,
they show up fine in place of the original a1 suit. And the suit texture does show up on it.
So it works. Just so far not as a newly named suit. Which is type16
Maybe 16 is too high a number?
Maybe DS has a limit to how many suits can be made.
LOA has up to a9.
Since I made slight altercations to the a1 suit, I need it as a complete new replacement.
For both farmboy and farmgirl, and it has a toss on ground model too.

Has anyone here made a new style and type suit of armor before?
I would appreciate any advice on the matter.

And thank you very much Kathycf and Bare_elf. The suggestion has far potential I can't wait to test.

bare_elf's picture
Can be done George of the Chickens

kathycf wrote:
A simple way would be just to edit the forearm part on Farmgirl's texture but I'm sure you thought of that already. I made the hands silvery without thinking to leave them plain since there will be gloves. . . I can see how doing that would be problematic. FG's forearms would look stupid in any other a1 or a2 armor, not too mention how ever many textures you would have to edit to maintain consistency for various other female characters. I think if you made the armor progressive, then the character could just wear it all the time, without worrying about the stupid look from equipping other armors.

Maybe if you fashioned a new armor type like the a1 and called it something else based on a1, like a0 or something similar? You could reuse the existing ground model thingy (suit?) for it. I am completely ignorant how one would make a new armor type and/or the difficulty involved. Maybe an experienced SiegeMax modder will wander into this thread. In fact, I don't even know why I am replying...kind of useless. Argh.

I wish I had a better solution for you. Sad It looks like it will make a nice armor once you work out the kinks.

That is all very true Kathy. If it where me I would just make a progressive A1 armor and assign it to my primary character and each of the hero characters that live in DS1 and LoA within the character templates. I have done this with one of my armors so that it shows up in each character's inventory and can be equipped any old time. (I have an equipment package armor, weapons, shields and spells that each character gets by default and everything is progressive)
Elf

kathycf's picture
re: Farmgirl forearm.

A simple way would be just to edit the forearm part on Farmgirl's texture but I'm sure you thought of that already. I made the hands silvery without thinking to leave them plain since there will be gloves.
.

.
I can see how doing that would be problematic. FG's forearms would look stupid in any other a1 or a2 armor, not too mention how ever many textures you would have to edit to maintain consistency for various other female characters. I think if you made the armor progressive, then the character could just wear it all the time, without worrying about the stupid look from equipping other armors.

Maybe if you fashioned a new armor type like the a1 and called it something else based on a1, like a0 or something similar? You could reuse the existing ground model thingy (suit?) for it. I am completely ignorant how one would make a new armor type and/or the difficulty involved. Maybe an experienced SiegeMax modder will wander into this thread. In fact, I don't even know why I am replying...kind of useless. Argh.

I wish I had a better solution for you. Sad It looks like it will make a nice armor once you work out the kinks.