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Sharkull's picture

Hitler's greatest "achievement" was in being the figurehead of an effort to brainwash a nation (using tried and true psychological manipulation methods). The rest is the result of puppetmasters (including Hitler) pulling on strings... which I do not find overly impressive, and his apparent values disgust me.

The innovations that come out of wars can indeed be impressive... necessity is the mother of all invention. Even nuclear bomb technology can be said to have been a positive thing so far... including the events of Hiroshima and Nagaski too (as regretable as they were). Consider how the Cold War ended without massive loss of life. Does anyone think that could have happened without the threat of "mutual assured destruction"?

Wyvante wrote:
Umm, I measure character and achievements separately.

OK... I see. I measure character and ability (including "intelligence")... since I believe achievement is a product of these (and other) factors.

Wyvante wrote:
You also have to take into account achievements are also a group effort.

I have to disagree with this point... and strongly. There is no such thing as "group effort" or collective achievement... only collections of individual efforts and collections of individual achievement. Leadership / management is a skill set that can co-ordinate the efforts and abilities of individuals in the pursuit of larger goals, hence creating the illusion of group accomplishments but the concept of "team" cannot be separated from the merits of individual team members' abilities and efforts. Playing a role on a team does not rob you of your individual achievements while on the team, nor does it entitle you to credit for the achievements of other team members... To be clear though, I do believe that teams can accomplish more than random groups of individuals... that is the value of good leadership / management.

Wyvern wrote:
Why is not always clear or given. You can not accurately measure it. It is subjective rather than finite.

Absolutely true... I never said measuring character was easy or objective. Comparing someone's values (if I can find them out...) with my own is what I find to be interesting. "Better" and "worse" are indeed subjective value judgements... I believe all values are subjective.